Totem of Legends vs Old Burning Rage - ???

[Cruel_TeK]

(old)Burning Rage 1R - draw a card conditionaly - epic - severe drawback, possible to kill yourself with multiples

Totem of Legends 1R - draw a card conditionaly - uncomon - no drawback - do a happy dance if you have multiples.

one of the two is banned - the other isnt. devs. are you even awake? either burning rage is a fine card or totem legends along with the other ridiculous tacked on synergies are busted as hell.

how is this a thing?

ramping out an erulak or phoenix breaks the game, but 2 mana 9/9 swift draining lightning bolt shooting card drawing shamans with cheap skill shrine support are totaly fine. what the hell?


everytime I play shamans it is exactly the same feeling as when swifting out a 4/1 ranged trampling swift aurite - I think to myself - How is this legal?


compare the two cards. compare a typical burning rage turn with a typical totem turn. even in the heyday. this is insane.


it is an insult to keep burning rage banned.

[Burdis]

saying draw a card conditionally are equal is wrong because those conditions are not the same

BR Needed you to play a rage spell to draw a card
Totem needs you to play a shaman to draw a card

Totems condition is not even a fraction as flexible as BR's was, so in this comparison burning rage is far stronger

Epic / uncommon should not have any effect on how powerful a card is unless you want a p2w game so i dont know why your even trying to use this argument

severe drawback/ no drawback yes BR had a drawback but i would hardly call it severe, Like this has already been proven?? its not hard to keep your handsize down in a deck that consists of altar and 8 one drops.


Possible to kill yourself with multiples/ do a happy dance if you had multiples. Yeah getting more than one totem of legends is great but you forgot to mention that 1 old BR could draw more cards than 4 totems of legends combined so obviously there would be a drawback to multiple br's and not totem

you also forgot to make the comparison that Burning rage ramps you and totem doesnt.

"ramping out an erulak or phoenix breaks the game, but 2 mana 9/9 swift draining lightning bolt shooting card drawing shamans with cheap skill shrine support are totaly fine. what the hell?"

how is this even a valid comparison?

also how can you have a problem with a 9/9 swift shaman ? you of all people? a 9/9 needs 8 totems on the board at that exact moment to not even deal lethal. thats a nine card requirement but you think its perfectly fine to deal 20 damage with one single card just because you made it to 12 mana?

[Cruel_TeK]

its much easier to spam shamans than spells. shamans are cheaper. they can even be fetched now. theres plenty.

totems ramp in the way of synergy. every totem makes the rest stronger. you drain harder, you draw more, you kill bigger creatures for less mana. this, arguably, outdoes in many gams the benefits of BR - in my humble opinion, having played both decks (more than anyone else in this game)

once again, I believe in todays meta BR would be just fine. not to strong - just right. and it would open up big rage as an archetye.

Ive no idea what you are talking about in regards to card drawn with totems - the totems have no drawback, can be recharged and are always used. - you sure as hell dont draw the maximum amount of cards possible with burning rages unless you are suicidal.


8 totems + is a totaly standard thing mid/late game in shamans. dont give me this cards invested bullshit. all your cards are shaans and totems and you have a 2 mana skill shrine to fetch em.

please dont try to be silly with me. the 9/9 will also dran life, draw cards and shoot lightning. you will have hit the oponent with other stuff before (slightly smaller instances of this card, totem rechargers and -2 -2 shamnss).

oh and this deck eats otk, or most other slower decks for breakfeast. so much for the power level. with the kaainu nerf it has only become stronger.

might as well say I invested 10 cards to stay alive till turn 7 to use that burning rages instance


what the fuck does any of this have to do with dragon otk? it doesnt invalidate any of what this topic is about. and yes - I think shamans - as they are - are dumb - and I will obviously play the shit out of them and continue to bitch about burning rage, because it really doesnt take a genius to see that I am right.


it is clear as day and night. both are sticky permanents. both do exactly the same thing. one is nerfed. the other isnt.

[VanguardX]

Burning rage isn't banned, it has been changed. The new version is playable without being oppressive, and opens up a different type of red deck.

[Cruel_TeK]

how is it oppressive? at the time it was nerfed it was not top dog for 2 months. just look at the masters lists and even the ladder end if you can dig em up. me and peacekeepr with maybe one exception were the only players running it, because we were lazy - everyone else was on crazy rage. and we even knew that crazy rage is stronger.

the only reason it got nerfed was because of crazy rage,WHICH DIDNT EVEN RUN BR - LOL

and please stay on topic. the title clearly says old BR

how is br oppressive but totm is not?

br is badly needed in the rage aspect

[Maurcus]

But that's just it though, the devs want no one card to dominate an aspect; hence the changes to cata, library guards, and life force. Bringing back the old BR would make red a monster deck, and any spells for red would be borderline broken (or just straight up broken) *Cough* Forced Labor *Cough*, added to that was the original reason for the BR change: to allow red to have spells that were good in their own right, without having to worry about BR breaking it.

[Burdis]

its much easier to spam shamans than spells. shamans are cheaper. they can even be fetched now. theres plenty.

by flexible i meant what can actually be played with BR,as in There are more options to put in your deck to synergise with it and totem will and can only ever be played in shamans and that is literally it
and this only gets more and more true as cards get added to the game

totems ramp in the way of synergy. every totem makes the rest stronger. you drain harder, you draw more, you kill bigger creatures for less mana. this, arguably, outdoes in many gams the benefits of BR - in my humble opinion, having played both decks (more than anyone else in this game)

every totem does not make the rest stronger? wether you have 10 totems on the field or only one that one totem still only draws one card when you play a shaman. Maybe im just reading what you are saying wrong here because i dont get how its in any way similar to ramping.

once again, I believe in todays meta BR would be just fine. not to strong - just right. and it would open up big rage as an archetye.

i dont know if BR would be too strong in this meta or not and i dont really care, i'm only arguing this because i think comparing old burning rage to totem of legends is completely stupid

Ive no idea what you are talking about in regards to card drawn with totems - the totems have no drawback, can be recharged and are always used. - you sure as hell dont draw the maximum amount of cards possible with burning rages unless you are suicidal.

the fact that they have to be charged at all is a drawback?? so your telling me that having to play the 2/3 shaman in your deck and have it in your hand at the time just that totem of legends can draw one more card is no way a drawback? that having the restriction of being destroyed when it loses energy is in no way a drawback?
But BR which usually sat there for the rest of the game and drew every single turn is exactly the same.
Yes you couldnt draw the maximum cards with BR in one turn but overall in a game it hands down drew so much more than a totem of legends, heck in a lot of cases the card even outdrew decks that were splashing wisdom!! because every time you drew a card you were also spending a card unless you used word of fire.

oh and this deck eats otk, or most other slower decks for breakfeast. so much for the power level. with the kaainu nerf it has only become stronger.

Yes and now OTK is gone meaning shamans also lost one of their most favourable matchups but i guess that doesnt matter for whatever reason your going to say.

what the fuck does any of this have to do with dragon otk? it doesnt invalidate any of what this topic is about. and yes - I think shamans - as they are - are dumb - and I will obviously play the shit out of them and continue to bitch about burning rage, because it really doesnt take a genius to see that I am right.

i should have seperated my last paragragh away from gthe rest it wasnt supposed to be anything to do with the rest of the argument, i was just saying i dont understand how you whine and complain about taking 9/9 swift from a total of 9 card combination all needing to be on the field at the same time, after so long defending the super "combo" of dragon dealing 20 without even attacking

[Cruel_TeK]

every totem does not make the rest stronger? wether you have 10 totems on the field or only one that one totem still only draws one card when you play a shaman. Maybe im just reading what you are saying wrong here because i dont get how its in any way similar to ramping.

the fact that they have to be charged at all is a drawback?? so your telling me that having to play the 2/3 shaman in your deck and have it in your hand at the time just that totem of legends can draw one more card is no way a drawback? that having the restriction of being destroyed when it loses energy is in no way a drawback?
But BR which usually sat there for the rest of the game and drew every single turn is exactly the same.
Yes you couldnt draw the maximum cards with BR in one turn but overall in a game it hands down drew so much more than a totem of legends, heck in a lot of cases the card even outdrew decks that were splashing wisdom!! because every time you drew a card you were also spending a card unless you used word of fire.

Yes and now OTK is gone meaning shamans also lost one of their most favourable matchups but i guess that doesnt matter for whatever reason your going to say.

are you actualy retarded? the more totems you have the more bang you get out of the next 2-3 mana shaman you play..

playing the 2/3 dude is not a drawback - its a boon. it allows you to lock up game with a few drain totems. your totems dont die unless you are an idiot or in extreme circumstances. cmon man. its not that hard to click no when it is on 1 energy.

you act as if having burning rage in play would magicaly allow you to play all these spells out of your ass. you know they still cost mana right??? they will always cost the same. you will always get the same value for your mana.

in totems, the longer the game goes - the sillier the returns on your mana become- suddenly 2 mana reads draw cards, drain life, shoot lightning, swift bash skull in. - the only thing comparable to that in BR is playing massive assaults to boost your creatures attacks - thereby dealing more damage than mana spent. (or having a 4 lvl erulak in play and using its ability. man thats a whoping 7 mana at 4 lvls. smh.) .. and yes. your word of fires deal more damage. thank effing god.

but honestly,, this whole argument is wasted on you.

[Cobi]

the irony of this topic is that Totem of Legends actually turns out to be one of the less important totems in a lot of games.

also, the actual drawback on totems is that you pretty much have to play only shamans as your creatures, most of which are arguably mediocre. Old Burning Rage on the other hand works with all rage spells. how did you even think to compare the two in the first place? because they both say "draw a card"?

one more thing: how about next time you include information about the card in question when discussing a nerfed card, so newer people know what the fuck you're talking about? here, i'll even do it for you this time:

[Cruel_TeK]

you too man? UGH.

burning rage cant be searched for. burning rage DOES NOT make your spells / creatures stronger !! yes, you can play better ones. but they dont explode the way shamans do.


every totem you add to the board makes everything else there after do more per mana spent.

and it doesnt hurt you to play more totems. it hurts to play br. you have to activley manage your hand. totems just pile and pile.

in ccgs it is all about value per mana spent (thats why new despina power is so ...disappointing.)