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Next things on the list

The game's community balance team discusses card changes here.

Re: Next things on the list

Postby Maximvs » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:43 pm

If there are no anti rush deck voices in your balance discussion group, I'd like to join it.
"Quick quick, rush him, we don't want the game to last more than three minutes!"

"Oh crap, he's playing a complicated deck, but that hurts my brain! What should I do?"
"Just play a mill deck, bro."
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby freebie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:37 pm

ivko wrote:It's not about feeling special, not at all.

The problem is that people will judge the cards before they are finalized, which could be a bad thing. For example we could make a card that is too OP and we would have to nerf it after testing - this could make people feel like we killed a good card. The opposite could happen too - a card is too underwhelming, and players see it before we boost it. In this case they could mistakenly think that this expansion isn't going to be good.

Also, appetite for card news is so HUGE that even if very few people visit the forums, the news will spread like fire - you can trust me on that!

From your point of view it and intentions might not be, for others it will be :).

You are worried cards will be judged, I say so what? Are they not judged now (Skatador was killed and some people got sad, other happy, was it the end fo the world?)? I mean, I highly doubt there will be some weird overdramatized reactions/comments Cruel (:P) style. In the end you still get some kind of notions/emotions that shows affection and brings attention (you are not looking for that?). Is it gonna be bad or good nobody can tell (probably both, things are not just black and white, I feel dumb using cliches). This is not something you should worry. You have your rules and people will act civilized or be dealt with. You have the chance to be even more open, similarly to the way cards were redesigned by the community and show that you are not afraid to be unique, quite the contrarily, show others (ze world) thats the way to be done.

I am not sure how you plan to reveal cards, which can be problem indeed if you look for that - aha - moment, although I feel it contradicts your generally open way of work thus far. You have to decide how high the impartance of that should be. I thought this part of the forum was meant mostly for "work" after cards are known. How many people will be really interested or invested (and I absolutely can't see that as a bad thing), to check and see how stuff is going/progressing. Casual player will not care at all, casuals that check the forum would probably just read or drop a comment or two, invested people will continue to be the same - comment, make suggestion, test, give ideas etc. There is not need to divide a small community. I am trying to justify the idea about secrecy, but I think we are missing each other on the trace/road.

I see the wind is blowing in the opposite direction when it comes to others, so that's (most probably) already been decided.
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby ripDreyla » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:55 pm

ivko wrote:Hey all, long time no speak!

Here are the our current plans so you guys know what to expect:

1. This week we are working on a relatively big bug-fix update.
2. Next week starting on the 16th, we are going to discuss some rebalance changes and the new cards design.
3. Two weeks from now, maybe on the 24th to 26th, we will hopefully have the cards in the game for testing.

This is all provided that we can manage to finalize designs before the 16th. It is hard because we are trying to lay out the foundation of a new "set" with this bunch of cards, so we need to play A LOT ahead.

I have one important question for you because I'm personally too biased towards open information - should we close this forum to only the people on the balance team, or let the "world" watch as we are tweaking the new cards design (and be possibly jealous that they can't still play with them)?


For me it is nice to know what is going on, and i appreciate knowing where and when i might be able to offer some insight that i feel may have been overlooked or i just don't know if something i noticed was considered, so i'm also biased to wanting it open, as sometimes other people will add a point of view, i never considered, and i appreciate that.

There are different parts to this. For example. You could leave it open so that everyone can see but not comment except balance team. You could leave it open and let everyone comment. Or you could close it and only balance team can see and comment.

I am also a proponent to letting people see what is going on. And allow them to say what they need to say. Sometimes it might be an amazing insight that we all missed and we could use. Other times it will be useless comments, especially the more people get involved.

If you are willing to filter through the rubbish feedback for the quality feedback, leave it open. If you don't have time for this, close it.

-------------------------

Build a pros and cons list:

Pros:

-Might get insight and feedback from someone unexpectedly that could be really valuable, and would only get that if they had the opportunity to a)see it and b)comment on it.

-People tend to have a more positive and forgiving relation with honest and open/considerate devs, so good public relations points with player base.

-Given that general population of this game is relatively small, it is less likely you will have issues with too many crazy people responding. Probably no more hassle than dealing with the spam this forum has experienced or previous crazies.

-Some people like to know ahead of time, some don't. If you could make it a spoiler type optional thing, people can choose whether they see or don't. If you make clear spoiler alert warnings when entering this section.

-People can have their feedback before the final product is released, so at least their voice is heard, regardless of the outcome and regardless of whether their feedback is implemented or not.

-Extra Hype for some people.

Cons:

-Everyone can comment, and can be a lot more work filtering through for quality feedback, both for devs, team and other willing participants.

-Can make it difficult to have a focused small group dialogue with so many people putting in their 2cents, depends on volume of responses.

-Some people might get put off or angry with some things before release. But this will happen one way or another, so it's just a question of whether you want to hear about it now or later.

-Some people hate spoilers. But you can work around this by implementing very big clear spoiler alert warnings. But then sometimes their friends will spoil it for them, but that is no longer your problem, they can't blame you for that.

-Some people expect their feedback to be implemented and are very mad when it isn't. Again, if you make it very clear the rules of operation. Than no one can blame you for not implementing all feedback. And it will set a good tone for people to understand what the process is about.

---------------

You guys can add whatever other pros and cons you have that i missed, if you still want to consider more things that i missed.

But yeh, i lean towards open. You decide whether just open to see or also open to comment. I think both is fine.

PS: if you were to leave it open to view and close to comment. People that want to comment will still do so in the general forum. So why not just let them comment in the right spot.
Disclaimer: Please don't be offended by these words, they are just food for thought and not intended to offend you. So read at your own risk of being offended
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby ripDreyla » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:13 pm

The other point of view that i consider on this topic, is what grander objective are you trying to achieve?

Which dev you want to be?

1. The dev that dictates everything, and no feedback tolerated, you and only trusted insiders know best for everyone.

2. The dev that acts like they consider feedback, but they don't really, it is just an act to appease the peasants.

3. You are genuine and authentic about being open with your community about things you feel they really can help you and the game.

---------------------

There is a fine balancing act between appealing to the masses and appealing to those that highly appreciate your niche.

To me if you sacrifice your niche to grow, then you will lose me. But you might gain the support of many others. Only you will know how to balance this so you don't break what you have and expand positively on it. I believe you can gain the support of many others and continue to maintain the support of those you already have, if you are committed and dedicated to this.
Disclaimer: Please don't be offended by these words, they are just food for thought and not intended to offend you. So read at your own risk of being offended
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby dermen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:22 pm

ripDreyla wrote:And it will set a good tone for people to understand what the process is about.

This is a good point imho. To see a good card and later to see it nerfed, could be frustrating, but you can hopefully understand the reason by reading the comments about it.

I myself would prefer to see the new content as soon as possible (hypehypehype), but I'm fine if I have to wait.
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby Ravignir » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:14 am

I would actually want to see new cards being added only to one aspect each month instead of 1 or 2 cards added to each aspect.
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby ivko » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:54 am

I didn't really anticipate the amount of posts and comments about the "secrecy" point o.O

So just a quick update here, we are a bit behind schedule with design because we need to come up with the foundations of a new set. We are making steady progress though and I don't think we will be out of schedule by a lot.

Information about number of cards and how you will be able to obtain them will be released on Tuesday.

Ravignir wrote:I would actually want to see new cards being added only to one aspect each month instead of 1 or 2 cards added to each aspect.


I certainly know why you feel that way, but then we would have a 6 month wait before a certain aspect gets any new cards, which I don't thinks is a good idea either.
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby ivko » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:58 pm

As is the norm rather than the exception in our field, we are late with production of the new cards. Good news is they are awesome.

We will have the cards for testing this Friday after planned server downtime.
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby ivko » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:34 pm

Hi everyone on the balance team!

The new cards are ready for testing and we have a full week for that. But first:

We will keep things closed to the balance team, and discuss in a private channel in our Discord server. So please don't spoil cards, you may however spoil little tidbits if you can't resist the urge :) Some visuals on the cards are still not finalized so, if anything leaks we want the option to tell people it is "unofficial".

Link to Discord: https://discord.gg/BqEVhpV, if you are not added to the balance-team channel, let me know.

We will spoil cards to the public ourselves, don't worry!

EDIT: Card rebalance efforts are postponed for now, first we don't have time and second we don't think it is a very good idea at the moment...
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Re: Next things on the list

Postby Cruel_TeK » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:14 pm

when will merchant of souls get its buff? it's disappointing to see that no progress was made on that promise whatsoever. the thread is dead and the bumps are flatout ignored.
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