The forums are closed as we are moving all discussions into Discord.

Join our Discord server by following this link.

Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

The game's community balance team discusses card changes here.

Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby Zadorec » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:41 pm

As some before me, I would like to post my looooong buff/nerf list:

ORDER

Trigon:
You can have only one double aspect. If you play an another, then the old one gets destroyed.
This way you can't just double aspect everything, if you want to have the best cards of an aspect (they should be the ones with at least 2 levels of the aspect + 1 or 2 generic), then you have to invest in more.
This might not change that really much, but it would certainly make Trigon weaker.

Almaric:
(Maybe) 3 turn cooldown, you can choose the ability to be active in your turn or you opponents turn, not both.
I think Almaric got nerfed too hard, I hardly seen any of them after the nerf.

Prosperous Ruling:
(Maybe) If I remember Fuzz said something like it could summon a milita at the start/end of your turn.

WISDOM

New Horizons:
2 mana W, Blessing, Legendary
Choose a shrine, this blessing will give 1 level of that (choose any color in case of Trigon).
Completely removing/reworking New Horizons would destroy plenty of decks. I think with it ramping once is ok. What is really annoying is if the opponent plays 2-3 NH and you play 3 mana behind.
With this, decks still could have a good start by ramping one early, but it would be a lot more *expensive*, since if you want to start good, you have to have 4 NH, and after the 1st, the rest is useless, and it could be destroyed by spell destruction.

Maybe making it a blessing, so it can get destroyed all the time, is too much, maybe it is enough if somehow you can only play it once.
Or maybe it wouldn't be legendary, only a blessing, so it can be destroyed.

Timea:
2/3 >> same as now, but give only 1 might emblem to something, maybe can't even give it to herself.
I think being a really strong creature, assisting other creatures, and drawing 2 cards is too much. And she can use other might emblems for card draw as well.

Parallel Evolution:
Remove card draw.
I think it would be plenty strong without it too, just maybe not an autoinclude.

Silencer:
Costs 3 mana (like all other aspects' 4 level blessing things), has 4 energy.
I know it is "not OP, it just seems like it", but newer players won't really understand that if it's not OP, after it is played why do they lose 90% of the time.
It is the same as now, but for cheaper and the opponent still has to pay +1 mana. But at least now usually it can be destroyed by playing 2 cards into it, when the current one quite often needs 3.

Library Guards:
Costs 3 mana
Have an ability: 1 mana: draw a card, stupefy Library Guards.
This way it is not a 4 mana card, so maybe it will be playable again.

Sunborn Subordinate:
Same as now, but 3/3 >> body
It was never really used, then out of the blue it just got nerfed.

Foundry Engineers:
3 mana WX, starts with 2 energy.
It would be more expensive, but it would actually do something when entering the field.

Crazed Apothecary:
Same as now, but 2/2 >> body
So occasionally artifact decks will include him too.

NATURE

Haldiri Rider:
3/3 >>>, 4 mana NN, Swift
It is not the 2/3 >>> creatures' meta anymore, so it could get it's old glory back. It is probably still quite powerful, so it is double nature level, so it won't get included in every single deck.

Moonlight Patrol:
+1 SP in opponent's turn
Some people suggested it before, it patrols at night, in Spellweaver probably the opponent's turn is "night".

Primordial Treant:
If there is anything is under it, it gains +1SP (only +1SP, so up to 2SP, no matter how many elves are under it).

Elf Commander:
(Maybe) Zzz: Give an another creature +1 SP.
Haven't seen this card played in ages.

Nature's Encouragement:
REWORK

Birchwood Invoker:
REWORK

RAGE

Detonate:
(Maybe) Deal 4 dmg to creatures with target emblem.
Maybe target emblem decks would be more playable.

DOMINION

Prin'ha:
In DDX mode only get +1SP not +2
I know she's not op, but she is a pretty okay card. Why would she just casually get up to 4 speed? 4 speed is supposed to be *special*.

Skatador's Bidding:
REWORK

Rhygon:
(Maybe) You could choose if you want to summon or not, maybe make it cost 4 mana and/or 3 aspect.
Honestly I have never ever seen this card in play. It is probably because I wasn't too active when Dr. Sticks was broken, but still it was only played because of that.
Zadorec
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:02 am

Re: Broader Issues Discussion

Postby SashaIr » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:47 am

Guys, there's a super easy way to make New Horizons balanced: make it WX instead of W. Still useful, still playable in Control decks, no more "who draws NH first wins" mirror matches, no more autoinclude in every deck that splashes Wisdom.
User avatar
SashaIr
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:10 pm

Re: Broader Issues Discussion

Postby ivko » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:54 pm

Good list Zadorec, although this likely deserves its own topic.

Sunborn Subordinate was nerfed because it was the top card in drafts or something close, and Wisdom was the top aspect there too. I really need to get some new stats, but that's another story.
Your friendly Spellweaver lead, programmer, designer... you name it!
ivko
 
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby Ravignir » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:20 pm

I think we kinda need something like non-instant mass dispell or mass non-creature artifact removal :)
Polish forum moderator
SW player since summer '15|One Turn Decks devoted - I had over 30 different OTK decks in DoC|Former DoC player - DoC Print & Play version - Click! - enjoy!
Ravignir
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Location: IGN: Veldreth

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby VitamineC » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:43 pm

I agree with most of the suggested changes.

However I don't think hard coding a limit of max 1 dual aspect into the game would be good design wise. In my opinion having a lot of dual levels wouldn't be a problem as long as gaining a dual level is costed appropriately. Right now Trigon is essentially ~half a level worth of ramp on a shrine at no cost.
Maybe add a cost of 1 mana, if you play Trigon as a shrine. Or change the shrine part to just +1 mana crystal and the blessing part to "At the start of your turn sacrifice Trigon of the Pact and gain *dual level 1* or *dual level 2* or *dual level 3*."
Then the card would at least have some cost for its additional effect

Horizons is definitely a delicate subject. I'm not sold on making it a (legendary) blessing. It just feels clunky.

Silencer at 3 mana with 4 energy is an interesting suggestion. It would have to be tested to see whether it's too much of a nerf or the change maybe even makes it more obnoxious in early ramp situations.

Haldiri Rider: 3/3 >>>, 4 mana NN, Swift
Definitely a +1 from me.
Your friendly neighborhood forum moderator
Filthy spammer vermin exterminated: 892
User avatar
VitamineC
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:48 am

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby ivko » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:04 pm

--== New Horizons thoughts ==--

It is definitely quite difficult to change Horizons without making it a complicated card, and IMO it needs to be a common because ramp is a rather basic mechanic. That's why I am also not a huge fan of a legendary blessing - as a rule legendary cards are at least Rare. This is the main hurdle of changing the card really, how to make it balanced without making it obsolete or complicated.

What about "gain one Level in an aspect you don't already have a level in"? It fits well flavorwise, and maybe... just maybe it is not a huge problem to allow gaining levels in aspects for which you don't even have a shrine in your deck...

Nah, I don't like that version too. It will force you to gain levels in unrelated aspects, or let you do it on purpose to fool your opponent. It also doesn't quite solve the "double Horizons" issue.

--== Trigon of the Pact thoughts ==--

On Trigon, I am probably in the small group of supporters of the current mechanic. VitamineC, doesn't your suggestion turn Trigon in yet another ramp card that happens to ramp you with "a level and a half"?

To properly answer the Trigon question, we likely need to answer the "what does a basic dual shrine look like in Spellweaver" question first. Then we can think about Trigon in relation to this hypothetical card.
Your friendly Spellweaver lead, programmer, designer... you name it!
ivko
 
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby VitamineC » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:39 pm

ivko wrote:VitamineC, doesn't your suggestion turn Trigon in yet another ramp card that happens to ramp you with "a level and a half"?

Yes, but at least it would have a cost then, either in mana or in a delay. Right now Trigon is basically tutorable ramp with 0 cost in deck building or gameplay.

ivko wrote:To properly answer the Trigon question, we likely need to answer the "what does a basic dual shrine look like in Spellweaver" question first. Then we can think about Trigon in relation to this hypothetical card.

That is exactly why I created that thread. :)
Your friendly neighborhood forum moderator
Filthy spammer vermin exterminated: 892
User avatar
VitamineC
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:48 am

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby ivko » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:46 pm

Just to make myself more clear, I don't really consider Trigon to be ramp of any kind. It does help cards that count levels (and Shifting Aurite a.k.a. "chicken"), but it doesn't let you play any single card earlier.

Of course it allows you to just use "an Order + a Wisdom/Nature level" instead of "3 different levels" to play most cards in a three-aspect deck. But that's exactly one of the points of aspect-fixing cards.
Your friendly Spellweaver lead, programmer, designer... you name it!
ivko
 
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby Zadorec » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:20 pm

ivko wrote:It is definitely quite difficult to change Horizons without making it a complicated card, and IMO it needs to be a common because ramp is a rather basic mechanic. That's why I am also not a huge fan of a legendary blessing - as a rule legendary cards are at least Rare. This is the main hurdle of changing the card really, how to make it balanced without making it obsolete or complicated.

How about just a blessing? This way it is counterable. Still not as easily as Angelblessed Knight, but at least maybe you can do something if the opponent decides to get 3 mana ahead.

About Trigon, yes it isn't breaking the game or anything, so it might be alright. But then why don't we make the other shrine go bonkers too? :D
With mana sacrifice.
Zadorec
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:02 am

Re: Broader Card Changes - Suggestions

Postby loveGIANT » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:21 pm

Zadorec wrote:Silencer:
Costs 3 mana (like all other aspects' 4 level blessing things), has 4 energy.
I know it is "not OP, it just seems like it", but newer players won't really understand that if it's not OP, after it is played why do they lose 90% of the time.
It is the same as now, but for cheaper and the opponent still has to pay +1 mana. But at least now usually it can be destroyed by playing 2 cards into it, when the current one quite often needs 3.

Not even kidding, i would quit the game if that would happen.

My suggestion is more simple, just remove the damn card, wisdom has enough stalling and removal as it is and it is less frustrating to loose something to flash freeze / power discharge than to just being locked out of the game while your opponent ramps up his board presence.
YouTube Content Creator.

Feel free to check out my Spellweaver Vids - A noob's perspective on Spellweaver
All Videos
My (hopefully) rise in Ranked Spellweaver

-> Make this a thing! <-
User avatar
loveGIANT
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:13 am
Location: Japan

Next

Return to Balance Team Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group