The forums are closed as we are moving all discussions into Discord.

Join our Discord server by following this link.

The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

The game's community balance team discusses card changes here.

The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby ivko » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:20 pm

We'd like to involve Masters participants in our game balancing efforts.

Long story short, history shows that we haven't always made the best choices regarding card balance. Our small team and limited resources don't allow extensive testing, or sometimes even the attention needed to properly execute this task. We'd like to change that and assemble a team of some of the best Spellweaver players to advise us in the process.

If you are a volunteer, please chime in below with your idea on how to execute this best!

We will start a topic with discussion about the balance changes we need related to the newly added 7(8) cards. There will be no time for anything more complex than that for now, as we need to make this changes next week.

Thanks in advance for your help!

P.S: If you have NOT participated in a Masters Final, we can still include you in the balance team. But you need to be an active community member, who has shown his/her ability to assess cards well. VitamineC, you can feel invited! Zephiria, I am almost certain that you have played in Masters, but in case not - you too are invited!
Your friendly Spellweaver lead, programmer, designer... you name it!
ivko
 
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby Maraut » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Haha, Ivko, do you know what you're getting yourself into? Getting spellweavers to discuss balance is like training cats to pull a cart.

Anyway, I'm in!
Maraut
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:47 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby SashaIr » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:49 pm

I'm definitely in! Should we post our ideas here, or there will be a separate thread?
User avatar
SashaIr
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:10 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby Zadorec » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:35 pm

I haven't participated in the Masters nowadays, kinda deliberately, but maybe do I count as someone who is a relatiely "active community member, who has shown his/her ability to assess cards well."? :lol:
Anyways, I know I'm not quite up to the times, I won't be too loud. :lol:
Zadorec
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:02 am

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby ivko » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:11 pm

I will start another thread to discuss pressing balance changes that arose from adding the latest new cards (maybe I can do this tomorrow).

Here we can discuss how to best handle this for future changes. I have some desires to straighten out some balance changes we've made in the past that were not the best choices. There will be quite a lot of discussion involved, and a lot of conflicting views. So maybe a sub-forum where we can discuss each card separately? Should it be private to only the people involved? Is a "beta test" of the changes a must? How do we handle this beta test?

There are a lot of questions to be asked...
Your friendly Spellweaver lead, programmer, designer... you name it!
ivko
 
Posts: 5252
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby Maraut » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:06 pm

A subforum sounds nice. Is there a way to let people read it even when they can't post in it? That way, they can discuss it, too, and maybe you'll find something usefull in there as well.

As for the beta, would we even find enough people to play it? Once a change is made, it takes some time for the dust to settle and new decks to emerge. Only then can you tell what went wrong or right. We're talking about lots and lots of games being played. There aren't all that many active masters finalists, and I doubt the other players would be very interested to play a beta that offers them no rewards on the main server.
Maraut
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:47 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby komsiant » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:08 pm

I'm not the best deckbuilder and even worse cardmaker but i'm in.
P.S. Zefyria participated twice
komsiant
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:42 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby Zadorec » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:51 pm

About testing:
It could run on the main server as well.
Maybe they could be added as *new cards*, but only a certain some accounts would be able to see it. Or even everyone, something like "Harbringer of Sorrow Test Version". You couldn't play with it in ranked, only in matches against with friends and maybe friendly.
Zadorec
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:02 am

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby SashaIr » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:37 am

Zadorec wrote:About testing:
It could run on the main server as well.
Maybe they could be added as *new cards*, but only a certain some accounts would be able to see it. Or even everyone, something like "Harbringer of Sorrow Test Version". You couldn't play with it in ranked, only in matches against with friends and maybe friendly.


I was about to suggest something like that, but idk how much work it is for the developers, seems quite a bit.
User avatar
SashaIr
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:10 pm

Re: The Balance Project - Startup Discussion

Postby VanguardX » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:42 am

Count me in. Here are my initial thoughts on balancing the new cards:

Harbinger of Sorrow: It's a really fun design, but it can be exploited because of Dark Portal. I'm in the minority, but I don't think it needs a nerf yet. Demons are easily teched against with artifact removal. That said, if we don't like the flavor of Demons being the best One Turn Heal deck, here are some alternatives:

  • Remove the 'demon' tag, which gets rid of the Harbinger train
  • Increase the cost to 4 mana
  • Make Dark Portal legendary, which would be a buff to aggro demons and a nerf to OTH demons
  • Round the number of souls summoned down, rather than up

Catacomb Keeper: It seems balanced as an addition to any new horizons deck, particularly reanimator archetypes. So far I haven't found it to be overpowered.

Cold Hearted Paladin: Cool design, but he won't see much play without a bit of a buff. I'm ok with leaving him alone, but if we want to buff here are some options:

  • I'd play the heck out of him at 2 mana/2 levels, although that could be too much of a buff
  • Make the body 2/3 to start, and drop him to 2 speed
  • Change him from a knight to a soldier

EDIT: tested the Cold-Hearted Paladin more, and I think he's good as-is.

Spore Shepherd: It isn't seeing much play yet, but there might be a deck for it and the design promotes choice and interaction. This card definitely does not need a nerf. We could give it a buff by playing with the curve. You don't usually want to go to three mana/one nature in a plants deck, and at 3 mana/2 aspects there are so many competing cards (timea & diogen in particular). However, dropping him to 2 mana/2 aspects seems like too much of a buff.

Overall, i'd leave it as-is and see if the community comes up with a plants list.

Siren of the Deep Sea Seems cool. I haven't used it enough to form a strong opinion. Like Spore Shepherd, it suffers from being at 3 mana/1 aspect which is an awkward spot. It would be much better at 2 mana/2 aspects, since implants don't have a lot of great cards in that slot, but it could be overpowered there and is probably fine as-is. It wouldn't surprise me if someone builds an oppressive implants deck using the current version of this card.

Deep Sea Horror As currently conceived, it won't see much play except with Siren of the Deep Sea. For it to see constructed play on its own, it would need to be a zombie.

Merchant of Souls: The only use I've seen so far is to build crazy combos (draw your whole deck, infinite heal, infinite damage). Ivko, is that what you wanted with the card? If you're looking for a cool combo card - this is it. If that wasn't the intention, maybe we should rework it.

Pandemonium: As is, it's much worse than Trigon. My suggestions to make it stronger:
1) Sacrifice 1 mana to add two levels. At that point you aren't ramping - but you are able to go from (for example) 3 mana 1 aspect cards and then play 2 mana/3 aspect cards the next turn, which can benefit decks like zombies (insatiable ghoul into cult). If we determine 2 levels for one mana is too good, try it at 1 mana plus discard 1 card.
2) The spell itself should be 1 corruption, 2 neutral - not 3 corruption. It will never be played outside mono-c control without some flexibility.
3) Alternative - if you don't like any of those, add a tag to the current version of Pandemonium that says "if you miss Divine Offering, you may put a copy of Pandemonium from your deck into your hand". As the 'evil' spell shrine, it might make sense to be the card you get when you make a divine offering and miss.
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/vanguardx_

10th Masters Champion
User avatar
VanguardX
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:26 pm

Next

Return to Balance Team Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group